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cap, captain miss america
For anyone who hasn't seen Batman Begins yet, I don't think I'll spoil the movie if you know Batman fairly well, but if you don't, or you're waiting to see all the little nods for yourself, this is a spoiler.

For comic fans, this is up there with Serenity. There were so many sweet little things that were only there for the people who read the comic, and it made me so happy. My dad, however, couldn't follow some parts where things that I already knew from the comic weren't explained.

This is not a spoiler but I have to say it for haruspexy. They played Batman and Gordon so much like Marek and Vittore at points I kept squeaking.

Yeah. From the minute they showed Young Bruce down the well and the bats flying at him, I was like, dude, they're using Miller.

I'm kind of shocked he didn't get a writing credit on it since they used Miller's take on Bruce, and on Gordon.

Let me just start by squeaking again and spewing all my love for Oldman's Gordon. OH MY GOD. I hearted him so much, and the scene with Barbara crying in the background-- all it took to evoke the feeling of year one were a couple choice scenes and shots, and it was so great because he was SUCH a sympathetic character. I don't know how many times I actually audibly squeaked in the movie and made my dad look at me funny because I wanted to give Gordon a hug.

I loved, loved, loved the fact that they gave Caine and Oldman as much as they did to work with. The movie wasn't just about Batman or Bruce. It was about the people who were close to him, and it really built up those relationships so well. Freeman was great, too, and even Katie Holmes was fine in it. I was delighted that they didn't pull stupid romance shit at all. They were childhood friends, and it gave someone to use as a barometer for Bruce's changing persona. It was nice.

I also found it ironic that they gave Liam Neeson the role in this that Lucas SHOULD have given him in Star Wars. Ra's was great, only I am not entirely sure how they were pronouncing his name? THAT'S how you do a teacher-student relationship. And THAT (hear this, Lucas!), is how you do a fucking kid betraying his master and putting on a big black mask and cape, thank you very much! The only thing I'd like to hear from people who didn't know the character already, did you guys feel like it was totally obvious that Neeson was Ra's? It seemed like it should have been, and they didn't execute the switcheroo well.

I also thought that someone finally got Bruce right. Not Batman-- I thought Keaton did a fine job as Batman, but as I was saying to deutscheami, Keaton's Bruce is a rich man's Bruce Wayne. He's an intellectual elitist-- but Bale's got kicked out of Princeton and never finished school. Keaton's Bruce is too pensive and too much of a loner-- he doesn't play at being a billionaire playboy the way the comic book Bruce does. Bale's puts on the quintessential playboy act, and does it beautifully. Bruce is a completely different man than Batman, and you can tell. He pours all of his focused energy into being Batman. Bruce is someone much more low-key. Batman allows Bruce to be an idealist like his father.

Also LOVED the nod to My Man Godfrey, the quintessential runaway millionaire. Kind of ironic, that a string of pearls built Godfrey's empire.

Scarecrow was well-done. I would have loved to see a movie with just Scarecrow, but that movie would have been a psychological thriller and not the Batman movie most people would want to see. I haven't seen the actor who played Crane in much (hahaha but I liked the Ichabod Crane moment with the horse), but he was so little-boy cute that it only added to the character. He seems so innocent when he's Crane, and sort of reminded me of Simon Tam, and I was like, whoa, THAT'S CRANE?

I'm excited about Szasz being in the movie. I'm hoping they bring him back. And, with the killing off the DA, one would hope they're intending to bring in Dent in the next movie. I thought they did the setup well, that was the perfect Batman/Gordon moment, and what I'd love to see is rather than killing the Joker off in one movie, bringing in the Joker in the next film and really building up the nemesis relationship, while relying on more of the lesser-known antagonists, like maybe Szasz or Dent-- or I would love to see the Mad Hatter. Might even be cool to so some Poison Ivy/Black Orchid stuff, if you can get past the Uma Thurman version of Ivy.

I also really, really want to see Vandal in a movie before I die. *Puppy eyes.* Especially since they didn't even mention the Lazarus pits, but I guess you could always bring Ra's back again. It's too bad; I'm not sure you can do two immortal guys in the same movie franchise.

Anyway, I think the choice to use Ra's and Crane in this one was perfect. It helps set up the Arkham issue very nicely, builds up those characters in a story that is more about the development of Batman from Bruce Wayne's psyche-- and of course those are the best villains to use for a film about Bruce's mental state! And the biggest problem with the last Batman franchise was that they ran out of steam when they used up all the best-known villains in the first two movies (and lost Burton and Keaton, of course). You can't top CATWOMAN with Mister Freeze on a good day, you know? And that was definitely a bad day, anyway. I always felt bad for Tommy Lee Jones, who had to play what I thought was a fine Harvey Dent in that horrible, horrible, wretched movie where he kept getting upstaged by Jim Carrey. Not that I normally dislike Jim Carrey, but Schumacher did a shitty job taking over from Burton.

So, anyway, great movie. Great character-building, great relationship-building, and they did a good job of balancing action with more of a look at Bruce's personal life and bits from other people's lives than we really usually get to see anywhere but the comic.

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I dunno...I did like Batman Forever- but more as a stand alone rather than a continuation of the same batman series. The first two were it's own thing, the third it's own, and the fourth... is uh... yeah. I haven't ever seen that one and don't plan to.

There are so many villians that are just TOO GOOD to not have in comic movies... I'd love to see Morbius in Spiderman. Always loved his character... I do hope they bring Talia in if they bring back Ra's. Ra's has always been one of my fav's... I always considered him Batman's true nemisis because he's not crazy, he's batman's equal in all things- including mental stability!

Buh... Batman always seems to go downhill whenever you bring robin into the mix... I always loved the original robin in the Animated series. But... then it gets weird when he becomes nightwing. Jason Todd was such a lousy robin replacement that he was killed off, and the last kid was just a bit young in most of it. :/

The Ra's stuff developed much later than the Joker stuff, though, and nobody who doesn't read the comics knows about him. I'm not a fan of Talia, really, but I don't think Bruce ever had a love interest I really liked. I like Nyssa more than Talia; Talia spends a lot of storylines just being a pawn, but frankly, I was kind of happy that they didn't use his daughters :P

Aww, I like Tim and I love Dick as Nightwing. I also like the new girl. I think Jason didn't get killed off because he was lousy, I think he got killed off because of what was going on in comics at the time-- shrinking sales and a movement away from super-hero-dom in comics. Batman on his on is a much darker figure and doesn't have to be a superhero. With Robin, he's much more clearly a good guy; you can't drag the boyscouty kid into moral questioning. So Jason got killed so Batman could really be the Dark Knight. With Dick, you can give him enough of the same kind of fear and hatred Bruce starts with that it could work.

Well... they had a freaking HOTLINE to decide wether or not poor Jason died! I do like Nightwing/Dick... but whenever the change up comes it always seems to mark a decline in the quality of the writing... I DID like the Bane storyline... strange as it was. I have a huge tome of Batman's 60th? anniversery that lists all the things that have happened to him or the villians.. which was how I knew about Ra's and Talia... but they were in the cartoon too. I really liked the ep with Thoth Kapera. X3

Ah, dude I totally forgot about the Talia episodes on the cartoon. Those were good ones. They did the whole TBC... with one of her eps, right? And all the stuff with the Lazarus pits? She was cooler on the cartoon than in the comic, though, she's always being set up by Ra's or Nyssa as bait for something.

I don't deny that Jason sucked, but the hotline thing to me shows that there was the shift away from people wanting an obvious good guy and an obvious bad guy. People wanted their comics to get darker, or nobody would have wanted to kill him off, they would have sent him to prep school or something.

I kind of wonder about that child actor they always showed looking up to Batman in the new movie, and if he'll turn out to be one of the Robins...

I really hope not! He's too old to be anybody but Dick and if they did that, they can't do Dick's whole backstory, which I really like, and which is the only reason Dick can become Robin to begin with. I don't think Bruce-- and definitely not Bale's Bruce-- would let some untrained kid who didn't come from a similar background get involved.

I have a feeling they might be doing that, but I don't want them to. I also would love to see them make him turn out to be one of the villains.

I didn't catch that he was Ra's till the end, because the other Ra's reminded me of Shang Tsung so much I just loved it. Like, when he said "Gotham must faaaall" I actually said "YO SOUL EES MEEEIIIN."

It wasn't him, though. That's a shame.

Hahahaha, you're so right about Shang Tsung. He totally was! Yeah, I was also a little disappointed that they had the white guy be the real Ra's and the Asian guy be the fake one. But no one would have believed a white guy was Ra's.

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